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Updated on Monday, September 28

#21320

OMG: 90% of college sexual assaults can be avoided if you stayed sober at home instead of going to a nightclub or a house party and getting shit faced. Yeah, victim blaming is not politically correct, but if a girl truly wants to lower her chance of getting sexually assaulted, she just needs to avoid those situations.
 

48 comments

  1. I predict the feminists will down vote this to hell. Logical advice won't work here...

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  2. OP (and 1, to boot):

    I'm a white male who's generally lived a pretty comfortable life, so I don't know how well I can write about this subject, but you've irked me so I'm going to try.

    Let's start by generalizing this situation a bit further.
    It's true that my chances of... well, just about anything bad happening to me at all, drop dramatically if I never leave my house. But that doesn't mean I SHOULD just stay inside.

    Take mugging for instance. When you go out at night in a major city centre, there is a non-zero risk you'll get mugged. But if a significant portion of everyone who went outside at night in Toronto was getting mugged, you wouldn't respond by telling those people "god, why were you stupid enough to go outside in the first place, don't you know it's safer to stay home at night?" You MIGHT recommend that in the short term (and I think that's okay), but you'd also be calling on, say, the police force to step up its efforts to make the streets safer for people to go outside at night!

    ...It's generally the same principle with sexual assault. Yes, when a woman goes out to a nightclub or a crowded house party where there are people she doesn't know and alcohol lowering everyone's inhibitions, she is at increased risk of sexual assault. I don't question that fact, and I'm not naive enough to suggest that anything anybody does will ever change that. BUT the issue isn't one of "is she at increased risk," but "what attitude do we approach this risk with?" The rate at which girls in university are sexually assaulted (and I don't have the stat on me, but I seem to recall a staggering number, like 1 in 4 or something like that) is astonishingly, horrifyingly high. Are we to assume that all of these were the fault of the women "who should have just stayed at home sober"? Or perhaps, could we begin to bring down this number by calling for a shift in attitude - a cultural equivalent of "asking police to keep our streets free of muggers," per se - that can at least start to make things like nightclubs and house parties safer places for women to go?

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    1. To minimize the risk of mugging, which cultural attitude do you think is the most efficient:
      a) Focus on the mugger. Demonize mugging to be the worst crime ever and hope the number of muggers drop.
      b) Focus on the bystander. Preach a moral obligation to help protect people in risk of mugging and/or stand up to muggers when they strike
      c) Focus on the victim. Preach precautionary measures to avoid getting mugged.

      Would you agree c>b>a in this case? If so, what's the difference between mugging and sexual assault that reverses the order?

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  3. Don't get too hopeful. Girls aren't held accountable for their actions, so they never need to act in a reasonable manner.

    They want to go out and get so shitfaced they can't make it home on their own? Its alright she's got some dude orbiting her constantly to cater to her every whim, he thinks it might get him laid so she takes advantage of it.

    If you don't want to get raped, don't make yourself the easiest possible target.

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    1. 'Girls aren't held accountable for their actions'. They're not doing the raping in this situation. Their actions are passive. The ones that are doing the actions, are the rapists themselves. The ones you aren't holding accountable.

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  4. So going off your logic if all of us ladies want to protect ourselves from being sexually assaulted or physically abused by men we should all turn into lesbians since our risk of sexual, physical, and emotional violence is highest when we are in monogamous, committed relationships. So I guess I should just go out and break up with my boyfriend because then I will be safe from the majority of female victimization. Hey #1 could you let us all know what the "logical" consequences of all women protecting themselves this way would be?


    But seriously, this is very ignorant. Women are the most likely to be sexually assaulted, physically assaulted, emotionally abused and murdered by a male they are in a monogamous relationship with within their own homes. To what extent are women supposed to protect themselves for this? No be in relationships with men? live in convents? complete segregation of men and women because then we will be 'safe.' Also 90% of college sexual assaults are not the result of drunk girls leaving the club in skirts and getting assaulted. Girls getting drunk and wear mini skirts and dancing in the club and going to parties does not cause or perpetuate rape, men raping women perpetuates rape. So how about not asking women to hide and instead ask men not to rape.

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    1. #1 here.

      I fail to see how *any* of the posts have indicated logic that will lead to the conclusion in your first sentence. No one has said that being in a monogamous, committed relationship makes you more susceptible to sexual victimization. No one at all implied people should be lesbians to avoid sexual violence.

      Logical consequences of behaving like what you suggested? You may be doing your boyfriend a favour. Omg. A joke.

      OP implied that you can reduce your risk of being raped by not behaving in certain ways. That's it. I said that logical advice like this wouldn't work. It looks like you've proven my point.

      As a human being, if I were to go on a camping trip, I take precautions so as not to be attacked by wild bears. I tie up my food in a tree far away from my tent and up wind of where I sleep. No one is saying to stay away from any and all men because all men are rapists. We're only saying there are precautions you can take, such as not putting yourself in a shit-faced, nearly unconscious, scenario, to reduce your chances.

      All this being said, I'm not a rapist. I don't rape. In my monogamous, committed relationship with my girlfriend, everything is consensual (not trying to gloat, not trying to showboat, not trying to brag). While telling the men not to rape sounds like a good idea, let me ask, how has "telling people not to murder" worked out so far?





      And how is "asking people not to murder" going for society...

      Either way

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    2. (4.a here) Whoops, I had a did a bad editing job, ignore the last two lines

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    3. And you would be absolutely correct if we were bothering with truth and facts here. Unfortunately logic and reason is lost on these fuckboy trolls.

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    4. >To what extent are women supposed to protect themselves for this?

      >sexually assaulted,
      Leave the relationship

      >physically assaulted
      Leave the relationship

      >emotionally abused
      Leave the relationship

      >murdered
      Leave the relationship

      Seriously, can women just for once try and make the situation better for themselves? Don't come crying to the men to solve your problems, I though you guys were strong and independent in 2015?

      >So how about not asking women to hide and instead ask men not to rape.

      How about instead of wearing flashy jewelry in the ghetto, you ask thieves not to steal? How about you go to the zoo and get in the lion cage, all you gotta do is ask the lions not to eat you, right?

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    5. 4d, read 2's post. Sure, you don't go around brandishing expensive jewelry in a bad part of town, but you also expect police to step up security, and your local city council to fund efforts that improve the neighbourhood over time (via gentrification/middle class job creation/effective social programs). This situation isn't all that different.

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    6. 4d does not even have the basest understanding of the psychology of abuse. 4d has probably never heard of the term "emotional manipulation". 4d also apparently thinks abuse is always male-on-female. Don't be like 4d, kids.

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    7. I think the point is people are saying women have the personal responsibility to minimize their chances victimization and if that is the case then women would best minimize their chances of victimization by not entering into monogamous relationships with a man as this DRASTICALLY increases their chances of victimization. 4 is pointing out that telling women to minimize their own victimization leads to ridiculous consequences and is not a solution to the problem. No one said all men are rapists just that a woman's chance of being raped is much higher by her partner than any other single human being on this planet as well as her chances of a whole slew of other forms of victimization. This is logical because...#1's argument: increased chance of victimization ---> do not do....thus getting drunk and going to the club----> increased chance of victimization-----> do not do.....THUS ANYTHING which increases the chance of victimization (the sufficient) leads to the necessary which is "do not do" and thus heterosexual monogamous relationship----> increased chance of victimization-----> do not do. #1 you are the one who brought up logical arguments but now it seems as if you don't understand logic

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    8. 4: That is a HUGE strawman...

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    9. ^Its not really a strawman, just not quite what the OP was about ("college sexual assaults"). 4 correctly pointed out that being drunk at a party and taken advantage of by a stranger is not the most common way in which women are sexually assaulted. Thus telling them not be drunk and dress a certain way doesn't actually solve much.

      4d: Lions are animals and predators. Your comparison essentially says that men are biologically programmed rapists that can't be held accountable if allowed access to women who aren't sober, defensive, and completely in control. Please give us a little more credit.

      Men assaulting women is something that needs to be changed from men's side of things.

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    10. >Lions are animals and predators. Your comparison essentially says that men are biologically programmed rapists that can't be held accountable if allowed access to women who aren't sober, defensive, and completely in control. Please give us a little more credit.

      >Men assaulting women is something that needs to be changed from men's side of things.

      "Men" aren't biologically programmed rapists, but rapists sure are. Most men aren't rapists, but I doubt you could find, among those who are, someone with the justification "NO ONE TOLD ME RAPE WAS BAD AND I SHOULD STOP". The "just tell men not to rape" argument is about as stupid as "just tell men not to murder/steal/fight", because we already do that and it's enough for the 99% of men that aren't rapists, but the remaining 1% isn't deterred by that so you'd better think of a better solution

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    11. Oh good, a real strawman! 4j, what literally everyone who argues for men to change their outlook is saying by "tell men not to rape" is "there is a cultural shift which can be made on the men's side which could result in drastically fewer sexual assaults of drunk girls". Of course everyone knows that rape is bad, but the presence of enthusiastic consent is not always considered necessary and that needs to change.

      Btw, I'm not actually in the "drunk people can't give consent" camp. Just make sure its enthusiastic and mutual.

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    12. 4.i: Sure it's a strawman. 4 doesn't address the argument in that paragraph and instead presents one that can be refuted (i.e. "we should all become lesbians")

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  5. Most rape happens in the home of the victim or the home of a close friend, and is done by someone the victim knows. I supposed the best course of action is for all of us to stay in our homes and never have anyone over. And here I was being told that UW women a terrible because we don't socialize /enough/.

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    1. OP clearly stated "college sexual assaults", not all sexual assault.

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    2. Omg 5 I love you. Ahaha we just need to socialize more. While not leaving our homes. Be nicer to menfolk and smile at all of their special snowflakes and not be bitches, but always be on our guard in case they'll abuse us. But we should definitely put out more and stop being such frigid cunts. But we shouldn't put out too much to not be a slut.

      Cause that's like our biggest worry yeah, pleasing the menfolk. Lolll

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  6. Eh. I'd rather see some hard stats on all of these matters. Have a set definition of rape and go from there. The main issue is how feminists hijack various events for their own agenda. To do so they broaden definitions so they become utterly useless from ambiguity. Fix that, then address the issues, if there are any.

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  7. I really hope you're a troll. I think that if someone ripped apart ur asshole without your consent, you would be singing a different tune. There would be none of this "oh i left my house and went to a club. I deserved it." nonsense. NO ONE deserves to be violated in such a disgusting way no matter what position they choose to put themselves in. Staying home does not fix the problem. Perverts walk the streets, now thats the problem.

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    1. Personal responsibility goes a long way.

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    2. There will always be perverts. Yes that's a problem, but how do you or anyone else propose to fix that problem? There are always gonna be bad people. Of course the world would be better if bad people didn't exist, but we don't live in that world. If the end goal is to avoid getting sexually assaulted, then staying home at night sober is the way to go. It's not a matter of right and wrong, it's a matter of staying safe.

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    3. 7b, there will always be bad people in the world, PERIOD. We don't lock ourselves up inside just because going outside might hurt us.

      I'll give you credit where credit's due: it is not unreasonable to ask any woman to exercise good judgement and fair caution when they go out at night to a club or a party. Stay with people you know and trust, don't accept a drink you didn't see poured, know your limit and don't drink past it, etc. BUT in return for that level of basic prudence, WE as a society have to ask ourselves: "what can we do to make these places safer for girls?"

      It's not a question of getting rid of all the bad people. That's idiotic. But it doesn't hurt to look and see if there are societal ideas/values which might be affecting the degree and rate at which these things are occurring, and then attempting to change those factors where we find them.

      Here's a common example (of something that happens all too often): high school girl gets completely shitfaced at a party with high school boys, her pants come off, and the next thing you know there's a line up of boys waiting to fuck her (while she's either out cold or bordering on unconscious, she's so drunk). Meanwhile everyone else at the party knows what's going on, but doesn't stop it, and later it becomes a running joke at the school.
      Are we to accept that every person at that party is a bad person, a pervert, and a rapist, who would do this awful thing, guaranteed, no matter what kind of society we live in? Because I don't accept that. At the very least, I think we need to create the kind of society where those bystanders at a party like that will act. Better yet - the sort of world where none of those guys in the lineup would be WILLING to fuck an unconscious drunk girl - or at least a world where those who would aren't seen as NORMAL.

      Is that too much to ask?

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    4. I haven't heard many examples as extreme as the one 7c raised but I agree with the general idea that its not the mentally ill or completely disconnected rapists we are talking about here. Its the normal guys who see a drunk girl as an easy lay rather than someone who is too drunk to actually interact with as an adult.

      Step your game up boys, getting with someone who's too drunk is shameful, not an accomplishment.

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    5. First of all, 7c's situation is totally made up and never happens. Ignore it.

      Those normal guys who see a drunk girl as an easy lay, are they drunk too? Possibly more drunk? So who is getting raped?

      Its easy to blame guys for things because we're the ones that have to fix it anyway.

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    6. 7e, I knew at least 2 girls at my high school who had exactly that sort of thing happen to them. It's also the sort of thing that occasionally leads to arrests, since sometimes one of the guys involved is stupid enough to make a videotape of the whole fiasco and share it in school. Even a few seconds of googling can find incidents from across the US. So think, before you say "it never happens."

      As it is, the details of my hypothetical anecdote are irrelevant - what matters is the point I was trying to make.

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    7. @7e, dont be naive. That shit happens all the time. I've seen pictures and videos of people in my year being taken advantage of like that. Maybe not sex all the way, but molestation for sure.

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  8. So OP, you're saying that a girl who had a bit too much and went somewhere to sleep it off is asking for it? What about a guy in the same situation? Is he asking for it too? Because many assaults occur while the victim is already unconscious and unable to give consent.

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    1. Guys get their wallets routinely pilfered when they pass out in the street. I'm not saying they are asking for it, it simple is a foreseeable consequence of reckless behavior. I never understood the urge to get pis drunk though.

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    2. 'I never understood the urge to get piss drunk though' WELL THERE YOU GO. He never understood, but still decided to educate us on what to do in matters he'll never experience and is too pussy foot to understand. Go fuck yourself and stay the fuck in your lane.

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  9. 4g's & 7a's "personal responsibility" makes me think. For this topic, personal responsibility is to:
    - notice a dangerous situation, avoid it, tell others, help fix it
    - do what you can and should
    - own up to what you do
    - hold all accountable to their duty

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    1. Why would I want to do that? I have assignments. Not my problem.

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    2. 9a, "do what you want" isn't listed. Go study, make something of yourself, and contribute to society. There, does that make you feel better? Is your conscience clear?

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  10. Some of the ignorant comments on this thread make me disappointed to be a UW student

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  11. Who the fuck are you to tell thousands of the people what they should or should not fucking do. Wow you're so brave telling women to just avoid leaving their homes so bad things won't happen. What a fucking revelation. You must be real fun mate, real fun. Piss off you're out of your lane.

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  12. Gr8 b8 m8 would r8 8/8

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  13. 90% of dickwad troll posts would be avoided if all ops would just stay in their lane instead of shitposting. Ya op will surely provide correct citations, but if op truly wanted to lower his chances of getting his micropenis virtually shat on, he would just avoid these situations.

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    1. OP is in fact a girl.

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    2. OP is in fact a world renown micropenisologist.

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    3. Then she really wouldn't want it shat on would she? Kek

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  14. You also reduce your chance of getting robbed or, assaulted in general if you just stay at home. Let's all stay home to reduce the crime rates okay? We should only go out if it's absolutely necessary. Because logic.

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  15. 100% of assaults would be avoided if women kicked every man they saw right in the nutsack. ~logic~

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