well there is no selective clothing, you attract attention of all who have eyes. You can't pick and choose just by wearing a sexy dress because it is like throwing a net into water, not scooping up food at a buffet
When you dress slutty, it doesn't mean you are opening yourself up to being assaulted. If a person dresses in a slutty manner and is assaulted as a result, it is not something that can be blamed on them because of the attire they chose to wear. People can dress however they want, and they should be able to do so freely without the fear that their creative expression will jeopardize their personal safety. When a person is assaulted for dressing slutty, they can't be blamed. On the other hand, when a person writes ignorant comments, it's their own fault now, isn't it #1?
OP here, please, please. I don't want this to turn into another rape/slutwalk thread. Its not about that. I was just sharing the observation that we want to look good for ourselves, and as well for those we want to attract. That does not mean everyone. Like going to a business meeting in a suit - its for that function, not to show off or impress strangers on the street. Or clubbing - you want a hot guy or girl to notice you, not the creepy weirdos. Its not possible to select who we want seeing us.
@1 If being raped is a result of dressing sexy or "slutty", why is it that so many elderly women are raped? Or per-pubescent girls? And prisoners wearing prison clothing? Or people wearing clothing specifically designed to show modesty?
what a superficial piece of shit women these days are. if you want someone to notice you then may be have an interesting personality. do interesting shit. but hey it's much less work & much easr to show your cleavage.
@3 I'm not trolling, I'm being serious. This is the problem with trolling: it's so rampant that nobody even knows what it is or how to do it any more (as if it had a puprose before anyway). and OP, again, you can't choose the function of the clothing or it's intention just by what it is. people will interpret how they like. if you attract 9 creepers and 1 attractive guy, thats the gamble you run. I'm not saying its ok to blame rape victims, I'm merely speaking about perspective.
^Because if you did have sisters you'd actually give a damn about women as people and not as objects to satisfy your backwards patriarchal clusterfucked world view. Go back to Afghanistan so the F-16s can dispose of you.
@9judging by your comment, everything in it doesn't apply to you "have an interesting personality. do interesting shit" however when I read the beginning of the post you wrote I realized you're an idiot. Girls do not walk around feeling like they can show cleavage and as a result do less work. I suggest you go find a nice girl wearing a turtle neck, bestow your words of wisdom upon her... then prepare to get sacked. Report back with your findings!
I lie to whores & tell them whatever shit they want to hear. I lie to my friends, my sisters and my family. I have zero respect for bitches. I have a girlfriend and she'll never know the truth :D I love pussy & I won't tell her truth.
@OP: Its true. My favorite is when a girl is clearly with someone and looking great. She still gets oggled from here to tomorrow so its clearly not a case of people misreading her intensions. Its just hard to look away from a hot body in a nice outfit.
This thread is full of feminists and misogynists. Just use common sense.
If you walk through a ghetto at night wearing expensive jewelry and flashing your money and phone around, then you're going to get robbed. It doesn't mean that you deserved to be robbed, but when you put yourself in dangerous situations, then you have to take responsibility for what happens as a result. No woman ever deserves to be raped, but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't take precautions to prevent it. There's a logical reason why women should dress modestly. It's not the patriarchy trying to keep you down.
@26 then why don't more women get raped at swimming pools or on beaches? Then why do women in burqas get raped? Why do little kids get raped? Is a little boy asking for it by showing some ankle? Why is a fully-grown woman asking for it (or "not taking enough precautions") because you can see her collarbones and maybe a bit of cleavage? The small minority of rapes perpetrated by random strangers might be influenced by outfit, maybe. But the vast majority of rapes that happen between family members, acquaintances, friends, significant others and spouses, I'd wager, would not have been prevented if she'd just covered up a little more. This isn't the same as hanging money out of your pocket... this is just existing in a public space.
You're saying to "take precautions." I assure you most women do. However, your "take precautions" implies there is some correct way to behave that will eliminate (or more realistically, lower) your chances of sexual assault. But your chances of being raped by a total stranger are relatively low.
What really would lower the possibility of women getting raped is just to not interact with, be acquainted with, be friends with, or be family with men. THAT is a precaution that might GENUINELY reduce the rate of rape. But I bet you'd all cry "misandry! sexism!" if I genuinely suggested that.
A lot of suggestions people throw out are just 110% impractical.
"Don't walk home alone at night."
Okay... so every time I have a late class, I'll take a $10 cab, since I don't have a car and I can't demand a friend escorts me every single day, if I don't share that class with them. How am I supposed to pay for groceries if I'm spending money on a cab at least once a week? Or maybe I should be just not selecting classes that end after 8:30pm because it starts to get dark -- great, we're not bothering to deal with the problematic attitudes SOME men have about women and sexuality, we're just making it more difficult for a woman to exist by imposing these restrictions on her (because if she breaks any of them it'll be her own fault if someone makes the choice to sexually violate her).
What is modest? What is "too slutty"? Okay -- I can maybe sympathize with your point if you just think a woman shouldn't wear thigh-high leather boots with a zip-up miniskirt and a bra as an outfit. Obviously she doesn't deserve to get raped (which we all hopefully agree on) but we can agree she'd get much more attention, and if she doesn't want attention she's wearing the wrong outfit. But I have been catcalled and sexually harassed wearing a t-shirt and jeans. I don't mean a skin-tight deep v neck that shows my cleavage, I mean a normal women's t-shirt and normal jeans with running shoes. Is this "too slutty"? Should I cover up to my neck? It gets hot out, you know. And guess what? I've been sexually harassed wearing a puffy winter coat. Much of the Canadian year we aren't showing any skin AT ALL besides face and hands -- basically the Western burqa, except that you can, I guess, see our legs a bit since we wear pants. I'd like to see some stats where the rape rate declines drastically in the winter, thank you very much.
@30 Very well, you make a good point. I suppose my previous suggestion couldn't just apply to women then. Anyone who dresses in a why that draws attention that the person doesn't want is what I consider immodest dress (be it a man or a woman).
Thirty percent of rapes are perpetrated by strangers.They're a minority but a sizable minority nonetheless. Also, responsible alcohol use is one practical precaution to avoid rape, as only thirty percent of rape cases don't involve alcohol.
@32 This isn't 30, but I'd like to disagree with some of your points
The problem with much of your argument is that it's full of victim-blaming. You say that dressing modestly will prevent rape, but the reality is that it doesn't. Dressing "modestly" is not a precautionary measure. Yes, some people are turned on by cleavage. There are also people who are turned on by a woman in slacks and baggy clothing.
Assuming we're keeping to the topic of men raping women, to say that women can avoid rape by dressing modestly is an insult to men. It's saying that men have no willpower, that they are emotionally weak to their desires. It's saying that there is really nothing more to a man than his sex drive.
Lastly, your source only describes reported rape. People don't report rape nearly as often as they report any other crime. Why? Because people are thinking the way you do: they victim blame. How could you expect women to report rape when victim-blaming is such a common mindset in today's society?
"You got raped? Well, were you wearing that mini-skirt I always see you in? Cause you were kind of asking for it." "Rape? Nah, you're taking it too seriously... you were probably just leading him on" "Oh come on, you've known each other for so long there's no way he would do something like that to you."
Bottom line: "no" means fucking "no". Lack of consent means "no". Passed out means "no". "No" in the middle means "no". Unless he/she said "yes" when you tried to do it and didn't change his/her mind, you can count yourself a rapist.
@33 Oh, come on. That's just a pathetic strawman of the whole argument I'm trying to make. Obviously the vast, vast majority of men have the will power not to rape people. In fact, those that don't I would classify as mentally deficient and not a representation of men in general. But just like there are thieves, and cheats, and liars, and murderers, there are also rapists. It is an unfortunate fact that you have to take into consideration that these people do walk among us.
And obviously not all rapes occur under the same circumstances. Just like all crimes, they are perpetrated by and to many different kinds of people (men included). I'm just referring to the kinds that are perpetrated by strangers. Like other crimes, it would be ignorant to think that there would be absolutely nothing you can do in order to prevent it. Not getting too drunk with unfamiliar people, watching over your drinks, and not wearing immodest clothing in inappropriate situations are some ways I can think of. As a man, I would never get drunk at a bar wearing nothing bu a speedo and a tight tshirt because I know that would be recipe for disaster. I just implore everyone to use common sense. I don't see what is so offensive about that.
And finally, I guess I didn't quite make it clear enough in my last two posts that I have the utmost sympathy for those who have experienced the misfortune of being raped. It's not something I would wish on my worst enemy and nobody ever deserves it. I am not blaming the victims of this disgusting crime.
That's like saying people shouldn't mug others. Sure it should be like that, but reality doesn't quite work out that way. If you wear expensive clothes and drive a high-quality car in a low-income area with a high crime-rate, there is a fairly high chance that you'll get mugged. By the same logic, if you dress provocatively, there is a higher chance that you'll be sexually assaulted. You can choose to attract people like you said, but you have very little control over who you will attract.
I don't agree with what happens, and the people who perpetrate these crimes should be held accountable. However, I do feel that it's better to take charge of one's own safety rather than ruing the consequences after the fact. Even if the perpetrators are imprisoned, does that really take away the distress you've suffered?
I just wanted to set you two straight about this whole "don't wear nice things in a Ghetto" comparison.
First of all, have you ever lived in a Ghetto or other very-low-income housing? Because the majority of crime isn't perpetrated on the unfortunate rich people who walk through the scary poor neighbourhood. It is poor on poor, ranging from domestic abuse, theft, assault, gang-related activity, drug or weapon possession, etc. The root of these issues are also vast, going from living in an unsupportive environment, having your parents unavailable due to work, low quality schools, mental or physical health issues... all the way up to intentional stigmatization and mistreatment by the police and government. As a person from low-income-housing (though not an actual Ghetto or Project), I really hate seeing this ignorant comparison because it places poor, ghettoized people as a societal boogeyman.
Secondly, the comparison SIMPLY ISN'T SUPPORTED BY FACTS. The majority of women who report rape are raped by someone they know. Should they have dressed more conservatively/kept a watch over their drink around their abusive father or drunk uncle? You may argue that you're talking about the minority of cases where it is perpetrated by a stranger, but then you admit you have to marginalize your argument. And should those women really be expected to just give up certain times of the day and areas of their environment because rapists may be there? Isn't that just giving in to the crimes? Why not target the rapists by de-stigmitizing the victims, creating a better punishment/rehabilitation system for perpetrators, and letting society know that rape is completely unacceptable?
^Ok, but until that happens, what should women do that they can control to minimize the chances of something like this happening? The main argument is trying to take control of your safety, and that could even include carrying pepper spray around. The point is: take responsibility for your own safety; not that the victims are responsible for their own plight.
Umm...certain times of the day and locations are inherently more dangerous. Walking home alone at 4:00 AM at night is not a smart idea in any situation regardless of whether you're a woman or not.
^^^ You're a fucking idiot. The concept of rape is present in some of the oldest religious and legal beliefs, codes and texts. Also, no one has ever just said "WELP SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST" after a woman they know was raped.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lapiths http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_of_Tamar http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rape_of_Dinah#The_Rape_of_Dinah http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_shall_not_steal (some view one of the meanings of this commandment as not to "steal" sex
So yeah, clearly people formulated the concept of rape before the last 100 years.
^ the modern concept of rape for those like you who cannot seem to grasp simple concepts. rape prior to this was not considered a social depravity because women were not people and classified as objects of men. Hence only the strongest survive as women would use their own means to become the property of an affluent man which we can see even today.
I won't take your comment personally as your lack of vocabulary and usage of links does not do anything to credit your intelligence which are quite sub-par for such a subject.
Hi OP welcome to society. It must have been difficult to live in that bomb shelter for most of your life, but hey now that you're out it's time to learn how society really functions.
First lesson: Society does not owe you anything, nor can you control society. This is the hardest lesson in that you find the world does not revolve around you and your beliefs. It is nice that you dress sexy within your own personal influence but beyond that it is up for society to decide. For example, my girlfriend and I like to talk dirty to each other in a very graphical manner. We are on the bus several seats apart and I yell about all the graphical things I will do to her upon our arrival home. Do I tell the other people not to listen to this conversation or do they choose for themselves?
This concludes our integration and adaptation into society for beginners. I hope you enjoyed learning with us today.
@50: Doesn't it strike you as more than a little ironic to call someone out on being incompetent and assuming you have the qualifications to make the claim? "Substantial reasoning" is a subjective to begin with. Your parameters about what's "substantial reasoning" may or may not agree with parameters. Yes, it is awesome; I concede that point.
44's argument is the most inane point ever. It's like saying polluting the environment makes no difference because the environment can choose to not be polluted. If you put something out there, there will usually be ramifications whether intended or not. If you've stopped masturbating to the D-K effect, maybe this point will prove "substantial reasoning" for you. If not, then that is your prerogative. Who am I to tell anyone what's right or wrong?
^ Thank you for defining and reiterating substantial reasoning without really saying anything at all. Perhaps a career in politics is in your future?
44's argument could be based on the issue that people can only control themselves and not the environment around them. While your analogy misses the mark by a furlong I can see where you are coming from. People can "choose" not to look at OP wearing sexy attire? Visual censorship perhaps? Maybe on your next post you can define inane.
@53: Well, politicians are considered respectable enough to represent people, so I wouldn't be doing so poorly for myself if that is your evaluation of my prospects.
Since we are on the same page in relation to what I was trying to say. Does this post serve any purpose beyond attacking me? Surely you have better things to do with your life. Though from your posts, there are strong doubts in my mind about the veracity of my belief.
^Which is why I have few beliefs to begin with. It's always safer that way. There's grains of truth on all sides of the argument. Though, in this scenario, I don't particularly mind my belief being disproven.
@43 Just wanted to point out that the fact that you tried to talk like your conception of a smart person doesn't change the fact that you're a fucking idiot.
Why are you even brining up your point? Is it because we should return to your idea of what people viewed rape as? We have pretty conclusively proven that women are people, that they shouldn't be raped, and that those views were barbaric.